It provides another example of how the gun free zone purportedly keeps people safe by not only keeping guns away, but by requiring more discharges nearby. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sig Sauer did not respond to ABC News' request for comment. Carrying a handgun in a purse, particularly one that isnt designed specifically to carry a firearm, is problematic at best. I didnt even touch it! You couldnt ask questions. The P320s and P365s were junk, plain and simple. Asked if the guns in these cases could have been mishandled, Villani responds, When I see videos of police officers getting out of their car and their weapon discharges in their holsters, nah, theres a problem with the gun. ABC then ran bodycam footage of a pre-upgrade P320 firing as a Michigan state trooper exited his patrol car in 2016 with no mention of the results of any subsequent investigation. Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! Canadian soldier wounded by accidental discharge used wrong holster: SIG Sauer Rather, it's because those LEO P320 pistols are seeing much more physical action than ones carried by civilians. He wanted TTAG to convey that hes pro-Second Amendment. I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. First I have no problem with the Mk 25 or any other Sig thats metal. Additional questions about the Voluntary Upgrade Program are answered in the FAQ. Unless they have to fire their weapon in an on-duty incident most officers only fire their weapons just before and/or at qualifications, which depending on the department are annual or semi-annual. If they recruit smart cops, they wont have cops who will act against their political opponents outside of the constitution. (It wasnt my gun). Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. The one officer in the ABC story had it wrapped in a rag in his gym bag? Funny how that works. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. In fact, I dont own ANY striker fired polymer pistol. And those are exactly the kinds of plaintiffs who happen to make up the vast majority of the lawsuits filed against SIG. Yes, but that did not mean the machine would be able to go on being marketed like that. Going on Sigs reputation I bought a P320. But as Officer Hilton says, There is no way anything could have gotten into my purseinto the trigger guard and pulled that trigger., This ABC report includes an interview with Joshua Harrison, a firearms expert hired by the network to examine the P320s design and give his opinion of its safety. I have almost a hatred for Glocks but the one thing that they are is reliable. 2) The p320 does have a half cocked notch. This website has been messed up all week so that might be the problem in replying. This gun had been voluntary upgraded. Police officers (maybe) do an annual qualification and thats it. Wheee!!. Asking for a friend. On Thursday, M.D. Happy with my old S&W revolvers, 3rd Gen S&W pistols,1911s and a slew of P226s. Google Keith Slatowski, is he lying also? One, the energy necessary to lift the striker-securing safety plunger may be insufficient due to a too-weak spring, or a too-light plunger, or some other design flaw, to reliably engage the plunger where it belongs. Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. Upgrades are for things that didnt work right in the first place. Remember the highly trained FBI officer whose gun went off in a nightclub? It doesnt matter whether SIG is at fault or not. With the 320, the striker is in full-cock position, and held there through the operation of the trigger sear and the positive striker-blocking safety. Have heard of no issues like the alleged gremlin caused spontaneous discharges of the P320 in other Sig models. The hype leading up to the P365 was pretty intense and the LGS sold a bunch of those. Ever since the internet went mainstream I have read about the Sigs decline. In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. Not just police in US had issues with sig p320. The thing I hate is getting kicked around! That is exactly why all civilized countries have Government Agencies that monitor companies that have a callus disregard for human life and are only interested in the quick buck. Still waiting. Oct 20, 2022 #36 ; vh20 said: . 1) The p320 doesnt hold the striker fully to the rear. Either one could have been a gun or a Barbie. It did not originally have this. They mandate more discharges, with more property damage, more injuries, and more deaths. In this version, Bridge City Officer Brittany Hilton tells her story of what she says happened when her P320 discharged as she was carrying it in her purse in what appears to be a SERPA holster (which has had its own problems, but thats another story). Dont quote the four rules of safety in your article when all the hotness in the gun world is appendix carry pointing something at an extremity and the photos you use showing front slide serrationsputting your hands fingers near the business end of the barrel, because press checks from the front is the way all the cool operator guys do it. A lot like carrying a cocked and locked 1911 but with the safety off. They both underwent full testing but while the Sig was the cheaper handgun ($1.50), it also quoted higher costs for magazines and spare parts, boosting the overall cost of the acquisition. 2. Im reading about a moron who wraps a loaded firearm in a cloth and stuff it in a gym bag, and other dumb behavior that tells me the weapon isnt the problem but the user. The networks report didnt mention lawsuits filed by LEOs (or anyone else) against other gun makers claiming similar alleged design defects. Being prosecuted and convicted of a third degree felony in Texas can lead to: Incarceration in a Texas state prison for a term of two years or up to 10 years. DND/CAF is not in a position at this stage in its investigation to offer insight into the potential causes because our investigation scope is broader than the technical aspect pertaining to the unintended discharge of the pistol.. The sheriff's office said its investigation found no mechanical problems with its deputy's gun. And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? The pictures on the internet were enough to scare the shit out of you especially his wound in the thigh. The problem was strikers. This highly trained Fibbie was doing flips while dancing (breakdancing? Second, every gun maker has made lemons in the past. The guide rod is cheap and breaks, it has rotten front sights! converted to the Glock denomination, but are now screaming that the P320 is Too new, not worked out! When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. Its also interesting that theres apparently no corresponding flood of civilian lawsuits against SIG with similar claims of guns going off, even though the public owns far more P320s than do law enforcement agencies. Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. Hes talking about trial lawyers recruiting clients whove experienced negligent discharges with P320s and suing the gun manufacturer. Two, the plunger may have a propensity to remain partially raised, or staged, instead of returning fully to its secure position, lessening the energy necessary to move it and thus allowing less effort to do so. The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. The safety WILL prevent the gun from firing with a trigger pull when activated, but it should never come to that. The investigation revealed the use of an incorrect holster not designed for a [SIG] P320, said the statement, which was released Friday and posted to a U.S. online pro-industry publication, Soldier Systems. RKC, the first time someone presented me with a 1911 whose trigger rivaled my Pythons single action, I started wondering about that. Sigs are crap! Police officers do NOT get a lot of training unless theyre doing it on their own time at their own expense. They are being replaced with Glocks. Yes, its reliable, but no more so than most other major brands well known models. Yaaay! So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. I dont own a P320. I own Serpa holsters in multiple configurations (1911, Beretta 96, H&K, Springfield, etc) for most of the time theyve been around and I NEVER had an ND. The Moron engineer who decided to put that on the Glock should have been hung by his dirty balls. three changes to the original design. Being highly trained doesnt eliminate stupidity. Attorney Bagnell held up the law enforcement officers he represents as examples of people who are highly trained in carrying and using firearms. Face it, you paid far too much for a plastic gun. Ron, That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. The new Kirk does suck. But hey, in ruthless, lawless, Capitalvania were life is considered cheap and expendable no one gives a shit, especially the Far Right that screams about abortions and then kills off the children that were not aborted with loaded guns laying around the house. In a straight up Glock vs. Sig battle, the United States Marines chose Sig, and that was AFTER watching the P320 perform for four years. So I think it is unconscionable, given the number of incidents of this gun defectively discharging without a trigger pull, would necessitate that someone order it to be recalled and only SIG can do that.. A too light 1911 as some use in competition or God Forbid for carry- could jump the sear if dropped. The probable reason that some folks are saying that the P320 is unsafe is that there was a lawsuit filed in federal court in July of 2020 (Guay v. Sig Sauer) alleging that the 320 fired "un-commanded" without a trigger pull while in a holster. Yesterday, a Canadian news outlet, CBC News, published a story regarding the unintended discharge last year of a SIG P320 by a Canadian Special Operator, resulting in injury and his unit withdrawing the pistol from service. I am also very much a DS9 fan, best series overall. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. They habitually use their customers as the product testers by selling what are essentially prototypes while quietly implementing rolling revisions. Jeff Bagnell, a lawyer in Westport, Conn., who has litigated 10 cases, mostly by commercial gun owners, related to SIG P320 misfires across several U.S. states, took note of the accident involving the Canadian special forces soldier. He would have been booted after the first time, but being a cop comes with some special privileges. Search Texas Statutes. Charlton, headquartered in Victoria, B.C., for comment on its original story, but neither responded. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. And the fact they used real models, and big ones, gives the ships a real sense of heft, mass, movement and solidity that the garbage CGI ships of the new movies just cannot remotely compete with. If the latter were to occur, the drop safety would prevent discharge because it would not be pushed up by anything. About $300. 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. But just the same- a gun going off from momentum? Got a 40 SW P320 SC on my hip now, got one in 9mm within reach, so far neither has decided to trip the sear without my help. After watching a friend get killed by a Remington 700 by another friend and the ensuing fallout 31 years ago I decided that I didnt care if the P320 was fixed, it was getting sold. Would you? Note the addition of ominous background music in the second seven-minutes-longer version (there was no music in the Good Morning America version). The second accidental shooting happened after police supervisors internally raised questions about the safety of the SIG Sauer P320. And it doesnt take too much Googling to find plenty of reports of LEOs suing the Georgia company as well (see here, here, here, and here for just a few). These lawsuits arent about Sig making a defective weapon, theyre about lawyers building a nationwide consensus in civil trial that makes it easier (and more lucrative) to soak gunmakers. Its also beyond debate that current production Sig quality is drastically inferior to what it once was, particularly the German made pieces. It sounds the same as arguing whether Captain Marvel could beat Superman up in a fist fight its pretty absurd and laughable. You clanging a bell that went silent years ago. Finger on the trigger and muzzle discipline are sometimes unheralded. ABC News ran two reports on the topic last week, highlighting one particular cop in Bridge City, Texas who is suing SIG for $15 million. Its interesting that ABC chose to leave that point out of one of their reports. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person recklessly discharges a firearm inside the corporate limits of a municipality having a population of 100,000 or more. Milwaukee Police Report Issues With Sig P320's Discharging By Tom Knighton | 11:30 AM on October 30, 2021 AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast Several years ago, there was an issue discovered with the. NO, SIG has a problem that they would rather fight in court. To be sure, Ive informally asked every other owner of a Serpa holster when I meet them, whether they have ever had an ND because of the holster. LOL! Heres the version of the report that ran later that night, during ABCs Nightline program . I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. That show with no Shatner-Kirk and only a Nimoy-Spock wouldnt have gotten past the first season. The suit mirrors lawsuits filed across the country involving the semi-automatic gun known as the P320. I sold that pistol when I got it back. The suit also cites other occurrences of "un-commanded" discharges with the 320 while holstered. Good thing you werent serious, thatd be terr..uh.oops. On the other hand, would we also condemn him for violating Rule 2 if the bullet had travelled through his outside wall, entered the adjacent house, and killed a resident thereof, or would we maybe, just maybe, place some blame on the manufacturer who created the pistol? Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. Cops are crap with guns, unlike me, a REAL pistolero! No picture for me. Look a fanboy. You should always use a real holster, or carry it condition 3 or 4 if its off-body. It has an unsafe takedown procedure that requires you to pull the trigger to get the slide off. The company didnt want to comment on any specific pending litigation for obvious reasons. Plastic crap! Lastly, ship-wise I have to go with the TMP-era refit Enterprise, regardless of Captain. They have similar vertical sear engagement, but the M&P has more engagement width wise. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. Hey, Im glad theres somethings we agree on! Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. He said hes a gun owner and a concealed carry permit holder. The Glock fails on both counts. 3. . , 54 people all shooting themselves. Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. Really, that JJA ship looks like something the folks at PlaySkool built, its terrible. And I suspect at end of day this recent P320 one will be identified as a negligent discharge or from weapons from 2017 where owners failed to . The second version emphasized the upgrade to fix the drop safety issue and notes that Harrison believes that problem has been fixed. Theyre cheering for a noose around their own precious Glocks throat. For the moron Neanderthals of the Far Right who will scream its the operators fault and we do not give a shit about marketing more safer designed weapons, if such idiotic polices were followed for other consumer goods today we would not have safety glass, anti-lock breaks, back up safeties, child proof medicine caps and chemical bottles, back up cameras, kick back muzzles on chain saws and the list goes on and on. Is there any major military anywhere that ever issued one of their guns? As for Seals they have their own contract with Glock but can carry anything they want. Instead we see a Sig that is ran by Mr. Cohen of Kimber fame have repeated quality and product development failures. The claimed mode of failure was that the tab on the drop safety that interferes with the striker movement had been sheered off and stopped being a drop safety. Theyre just on a 30 year nap hoping what they did will carry them forever. Note also that ABC didnt provide any context for the number of suits filed against SIG. The military has found that the pistol has a tendency to eject live rounds among other issues. And yes, if I pulled some of those stunts, Id have my membership revoked. I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. There was no holster involved. Likewise, having a finger in the trigger-guard, or a clothing draw-string, or a retention strap, or some other object, when holstering the gun exonerates the maker, as the gun is firing with a trigger press of sufficient energy and stroke as designed. Grow up, you aint all that! Yes, a lot of police officers only shoot when they have to for qual. I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. Theyve now come to the attention of the legacy media. Whether or not the suits have merit. These suits allege that their ultra-popular P320 pistol can fire without the trigger being pulled. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. To me it was unreal, $600 to ask a question about WOK and a picture. Its pathetic how often these legal stunts work. The Glocks trigger had caught on a fold in the leather holster and it pushed the trigger part way back. While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. The HK VP70 was made in 1970 when Gaston Glock was making curtain rods. 00:03. They passed every state and national drop test requirement out there. Sounds like these officers and others are attempting to cover their posteriors. It upgraded its P320 pistols in October 2018, before the middle school incident, spokeswoman Amanda. Its hard to say yet but with anything follow the basic safety rules. If the military was going to go cheap then they should have thrown Taurus into the mix. ABCs own hired consultant, who appears to have no dog in these fights, asserted that he could find no reasonable explanation for these claims and that he considers the upgraded P320 pistols safe for sale to law enforcement and the public. She didnt sue, but swore she would never own another Volvo again. I have never had to have one serviced or replaced. The best take on this subject is by the author himself: this is about slime lawyers looking to build a national narrative and get a few wins in, so they can more easily get the next win and the next one, the next one and so on. I also have a manual safety. But when you set a gun down on a table, and the damn thing goes off seconds after you let go, that sounds like a defective gun. Had a buddy, years ago, that was a deputy for Orange County in California. If you can make the trigger move backwards, all bets are off. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g. JTF-2 is the only unit in. Slowly people are realizing they arent the only ones having issues. He is acting as a consultant in the Collette suit that was filed last week. If the gangster greed monger criminal Capitalvanians in the gun industry had their products under the jurisdiction of the consumer safety administration all the newer striker fired guns would never have been allowed on the market unless they had manual safeties and a safe take down system. -You plan on getting rid of your P320, great! LOL! But it also has much worse quality control on the parts in my experience owning and working on both. Not sure why it wont let me reply to you, but Ill reply to myself in the hope youll get it. At the risk of sounding superstitious lets review Sigs latest turd pistol. He wanted to see how accurate the gun was, especially after the customer got it back after the voluntary upgrade. This is why we now have back up safeties on garden tractors and riding lawn mowers. But were way past the days of major league, internationally known gunmakers turning out complete crap, selling it and the public living with it. The pistol is popular with commercial gun owners and law enforcement south of the border. In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. A fine of up to $10,000. I call b-s on all these my gun magically went off. That said, I own multiple P320s, but all of them have the manual safety due to personal preference. Legal Penalties. No you haters are not smarter than the US military, who tested the P320 far more than your favorite YouTuber ever did. He likens it to a bow-and-arrow, pulled taut. Have you ever noticed that big trouble usually comes in groups of 3. But Shatner? Bagnells and other lawsuits ABC claims at least 54 discharges and 10 suits against SIG describe instances of P320s going off dating back to 2016, prior to the upgrade. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. But this time, the sound bites used were different. You simply may not PREFER one make to another, or may simply dislike another make, but were to the point in semi-auto pistol production history where amongst the big brands, the only real distinctions are preference. The same should hold true for the insane marketing of pistols like the totally unsafe Glock. So even if, as the ambulance chaser claims, the striker leg could vibrate off of the sear face, it could not discharge unless the drop safety was also disengaged because the drop safety prevents movement of the striker sufficient to make the firing pin protrude from the breech face. Mine is very accurate. Ron Cohen ruined Kimber and now hes doing the same to SIG. I dont own a Glock or a SIG and am not a fanboy of either. As to prong 2, there is a considerable difference between the mechanism of a 320 and, say, ones basic Glock, in that a 320 is fully cocked, whereas a Glock is half-cocked until the trigger is fully depressed, with the striker remaining locked by the striker safety plunger until that is released by a cam on the trigger bar. Ill go so far as to say the first batch of Sig P320s did nothing wrong. These officers are not gunfighters. Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. First off, no joke on me. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. She claims that her holstered P320 pistol went off while she was carrying it in her purse. Once word of that got out there was an avalanche of sexual harassment lawsuits against Fox news. . I would trust the intelligence of a Gorilla in a zoo before any one in the Far Right. Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. And people have a way of looking for ways to deflect blame for those discharges, especially when they stand to lose their job as a result. Let us look at the history of other consumer products. Later when he was driving he shifted his weight and this caused the trigger to be pushed back further and it went off and shot him and the bullet then also blew a big hole in the floor board of this truck. TTAG talked to Bagnell, who told us that he wants it to be known that he is not anti-gun and doesnt want to see more gun control laws in this country.
Joss Favela Y Adriel Favela Son Hermanos, Kevin Gates Concert 2022 Kentucky, Permit To Transport Dead Body, Terronez Middle School Fights, Tolerance And Forgiveness In Islam, Articles S