ArmsCollectors.com Collectable Firearms Forums Modern, antique and collectable firearms, questions answered, gun & militaria related items. Navigation (GPS, altimetres, compasses, maps), Immediate shipping on a all products listed. is 1.220 kg (43.00 oz). Belgian Proof Marks Help Needed - The Snipe Hunting Forum for identifying the acceptance and proof marks as it appears, many Biography: Henri & Nicolas Pieper - Forgotten Weapons The viewers mark was a capital V, also surmounted with a crown. There is no doubt that this system contributed much to the good report in which properly proved arms were held, and laid the foundation of much export trade. (Six volumes by alphabetical order), Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1. Closset J.M. I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. The proof marks for Eibar, in Spain, are the letters Po, surmounted by a crown. You can tell an unaltered pin-fire by the vertical slot in the breech extending to the top of the barrel (and, of course, the absence of a firing pin). Ateliers Saint Laurent, Bauwir Joseph "Any maker's name or place of origin? Ancion Marx Bernimolin & Cap Made in Colton N. Y. probably around the 1860s. Reply rdlowe Pilgrim Joined Dec 11, 2015 Messages 236 Reaction score 190 Location Dallas TX Dec 21, 2018 #3 curator said: The wood does not look ancient so I am guessing in the 1970s or so. The slot for the pin had to be welded up and a firing pin installed.I dont know when pin-fire cartridges ceased being manufactured, but Id guess they were still available until the early twentieth century. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Cowboy & Old Western History Items 2/3/2023 Bargain Basement 2/3/2023 Check our Services. Is there a 70mm stamp on the extractor blade faces? Entries are listed by initial year of service descending, then grouped by designation (A-to-Z) to better showcase a given country's evolution in the field of infantry arms. Barrels are not rifled- does this mean it must be a shotgun? this location now so you can return often. OldGuns Newsletter . Bodson TH. Spesco was based in Atlanta, GA, and imported a variety of reproduction and modern guns in the 1960's and 70's.It would be a good idea to check that the rifle is unloaded. production. insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of I have two sets of wood handles and artillery holster with marks of 7 ; 44; 105C. Ever seen that? Some older foreign manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a location, rather than a manufacturer. be reproduced, in part or in whole, without the written permission of '. Since it reads >>Made in Belgium<< on the side of the tubes it was made for export. The lack of chamber length probably means it was made before 1892.Is there a name on it? Rifle: Included in this lot we have a Belgian Flobert Style Warnant . Credit: @matt_s_schmidt Unfortunately, given that double barrel shotguns were made in numerous countries and then exported to the USA, chances are that not all of them will state the manufacturer and serial number in the same way. Home | Login | Register. After years of looking at and trying This printed that we have found on this subject. If you are interested in import, export, or wholesale purchase of shotguns, theres no better place than AmmoTerra to find a buyer or supplier of military equipment. Since the U.S. has no proofing houses (as in England, France, Germany and . Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 By Alain Daubresse This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. Can't help much w/o some photos (send to ghcox3@gmail.com). Other than the diameter stamp, I don't see a 70mm stamp. Britte Frres The Belgian-made Auto-5 gets more accolades, but the Miroku A-5 is the better gun. Warnant Top Break Double Action Revolver - Revivaler The famous "hump back" was made in countless configurations and gauges. A Adaptive Tactical Shotguns American Tactical Shotguns B Baikal Shotguns Barrett Shotguns Benelli Shotguns Beretta Shotguns Blaser Shotguns Browning Shotguns C Century Shotguns Charles Daly Shotguns Chiappa Shotguns No small part of the Belgians' remarkableability to meet the demands of a wide variety of firms trading all over the world was their willingness to go on producing type of guns that were obsolete. I can't tell if it was proved for nitro: those have a lion over the PV. Counet - Genot Serial # 58755 S76 This custom made Belgium gun was probably designed for the European market. 1860-1870. Get this product now as it would not last, Contract - 5.56 x 45mm 62 Gr. Most specimen marks are of this nature, and it is no unusual thing to find the marks of two different smiths upon the same weapon, one man signing the lock work, the other being the barrel maker. (copy right L.R. Whatever type of shotgun you want to add to your collection, you can be sure to find just what you're looking for here. Belgian Shotgun Identification Guide | Shotgun Forum The mark was seldom requested, Chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. It could be almost anything: an English Greener, which would have Birmingham, England, proof marks, or it could be a double of dubious origin. These firearms Choke constriction, together with barrel dimension this can give a brief view of the choke. Photos of the flats on the barrels and on the action would help a lot. If 'JF' it could be Janssen Fils or Frres. Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. Coleye M. N. Under their charter the Gunmakers Company had powers to prove and mark all manner of hand guns, daggs, and pistols, and every part thereof, whether made in London or in the suburbs, or within ten miles thereof, or brought thither for sale, or imported for foreign parts. If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. I will have to upload some pictures later when I get to my computer. 10 Biggest American Gun Companies Share a Rich History - Wide Open Spaces If you have a question or would like more information, please call (877) 214-9327 or email info . country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and Classic Guns: Great American Double-Barrel Shotguns - Gun - Gun Digest Colleye Henri Joseph Original Antique Gun Parts for Sale - International Military Antiques After investigation of proofmarks I realised it is a Belgium manufacured gun from Liege. As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. Marlin-Savage-Winchester "Cueruy" could be the maker. "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over Anyone else know? In its small version its a acceptance mark on barrels that was exported in a unfinished state 1846-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small pistols and revolvers barrels 1866-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small revolvers cylinders 1866-1893. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 | Jan C. Still Lugerforums Black powder proof for rifles and shotguns. Hey I have a F. Dumoulin & Co. 12 gauge side by side with double hammers. What I know so far is: 1924 is a bit late for Damascus barrels. cases. The Further changes were initiated, when smokeless powder necessitated more stringent conditions of proof. Oftentimes it makes no sense to let go of the past, particularly since shotguns from higher-quality Damascus steel are as shootable today as they were 150-plus years ago. The "1136" might be the serial number for that pair of pistols. . On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size (or nominal bore) plus the shell or cartridge case length. The 1KG 545 is the barrel weight in grams. The first on the left and the fourth (the one that resembles a candlestick)indicate provisional proof. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Thank y'all for your help ahead of time! Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. presented below is the first of the series and is covering the gunmakers whose names are GWO, good condition. The one on the far right is the definite proof for nitro, or smokeless powder. St. Etienne, in France, established its proof house in the reign of Francis I., at the beginning of the sixteenth century. Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. determination. Bovy Thodore Joseph Judging by the comments that appeared when I Googled "spesco corporation," your guess is on target. it was my grandfathers and has been in the family for a while. Seen Colard Louis - Counet Lonard Ordinance and Proof Houses were established by law in almost every Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. Antique Double Barrel Shotgun: Identifying, Valuing, and Buying Gun Barrel Proof Marks. Search. If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. ELG Belgian markings | The Firearms Forum It's as useful in a duck blind as it is . JavaScript is disabled. Since 1924 used on all rifled arms. The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Introduced to designate arms proved in conformity of German Proof Law of 1891. are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. I'm very excited and can't wait for some replies. Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture It has punched on one side of barrel 17.2, on the other side punched JC, EL ,pinfire symbol, K and crown on its top, E LG little crown under them in oval.Please help me to get the closest identification for this nice firearm. Quick Facts only 70 i see is the 70above the D = above where it says 20.7 i dont know what those numbers mean. Antique Gun List Antique Guns and Firearms including Antique Hand Shooting Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture By Jim Harmer Updated on February 7, 2023 It's important to know where your firearms come from if you are a conscious consumer who wants to make sure your money is only going to places you support. However, there are more proof marks that I cannot find on the internet. Bernimolin I also looked at other European proof marks but didn't find the one you mention: compare http://www.cornellpubs.com/Catalog/proof-marks-intl.pdf. No maker's name at all. Worldwide Logistics for all your products. Burrard, Major Sir Gerald. Nowadays these firearms are mostly used for hunting or kept at home for self-defence. and an eagles head. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Today, quality 12-gauge field grade guns from all the American makers during this era can be found and purchased for less than $1,000. 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. Email: Info@hlebooks.com Have had this gun in family for as far as i remember at least 40 years. Weight of proofed barrels, after 1924 fractions of grams no longer used. Parisa cipher of E. and P. set back to back (as shown below). Greetings Easthampton again, I have since, researched:The officers of the 105th Ohio were issued the 38-40 44. B. Tradename on guns made in Belgium, c.1900. rifle,over a 12 ga. shotgun. Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 - HLEBOOKS.com The rifle requirements were developed through a process of lengthy trials and included, most notably, the box magazine that could be loaded by stripper clip or by. After this, the firearm is examined to make sure it is still intact and if so, the metal (usually the barrel) is stamped with . The Baby Browning: A .25 ACP Pocket Pistol For Personal Protection outlawman7 - The reason for a lack of response here may be found in the post immediately above yours. wolf and human romance manga J.C. Higgins Model 31 Parts, Schematic | Numrich Gun Parts Manufacturers J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 Parts List Sort by: Show Available 0 Schematic w/ Parts List 2 Driving Spring 3 Driving Spring Guide 4 Barrel 5 / 6 Bolt 8 Buttplate Screw 9 Buttplate Trim 10 Cartridge Lifter 11 Cartridge Lifter . I have not fired it. Any maker's name on the rib between the barrels?Best,Gerry, 1902 a greener twobarrel it has hh on botten of barrel what do i have. or E.C. Around the 1880s, Damascus barrels became an object of the past. Stevans): cant verify it is Maj. Doan, but on his hip is a pistol, which looks alike a 7 in. All 31 Belgian gun makers, Belgium dealers and sellers and suppliers The idea behind such a test is to verify the strength of the barrel, breech and firing system of a firearm by deliberately firing an over-pressured cartridge. Markus, clearly your gun is from 1943, but look, you have used a 2011 old post. This includes many fine Browning A5 shotguns and the Superposed shotgun. the 20th century. There's no indication of chamber length--but that didn't begin until 1892.The other marks I can't identify.So what can I tell you? When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The standard proving of weapons rose out of the need for protection on the part of the public against unreliable weapons, and it was also a means of protecting the armourer guild and good craftsmen against outside competition with cheap imported arms. Needless to say, I bought the gunand it will never be for sale as long as I am alive. You can also browse other antique pistols for sale or additional categories as diverse as Colts, Winchesters, and antique long guns. Most shotguns have smoothbore barret to be able to use shells which are grouped by gauges (instead of rifles caliber) - they indicate the weight of the ammunition fired. Besides these national collections, there are many municipal and private galleries whose curators have formed most excellent catalogues, but in the main this knowledge is uncoordinated. All 31 Belgian gun makers, Belgium dealers and sellers and suppliers Home > Companies Gun & arms makers from Belgium country Czech Republic South Africa Israel Malaysia Netherlands Belgium Norway United Arab Emirates Finland Nigeria Ukraine Hungary Indonesia Lithuania Serbia Slovak Republic Croatia New Zealand Sweden Greece Japan Slovenia Inspectors mark, normally these are kept secret. 29 Classic Guns: Old Rifles, Collectible Shotguns, and - Field & Stream Shotguns - Belgium Double for sale - Guns International i have old 12 bore gun with marking as -elg with crown above in oval shape, PV, CHOKE, 1KG 545, X WITH STAR ON IT, 12.65, these r sum of the markings, the condition is good, its our family gun, but i dont know it value or year of manufacture, if u can help. Counet-Leboulle J. Testing the gun will it take normal 12 gauge shells then? I know the bottom image. Consignment Sale Information. Bayet Frres individual armorers and inspectors used their own unique stamps in some Belgium - Shotguns Mark for optional superior provisional proof. Antique Shotguns & Belgian Shotguns Side by Side - Collectors Firearms Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 - HLEBOOKS.com So the only indicator of the chamber depth is found with the stamp of the Chamber dimensions? Muzzleloading, breech loading, accessories, Airborne weapon pod systems, ammunition, vehicle mounted weapon systems, Gas-piston-operated weapon systems, firearm accessories, drop-in triggers, patriotic artwork, bolt carriers, bolts, upper receivers, barrel nut heatsinks, E^2 (E-Squared) barrels, Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles, Suppressors, optics, ammunition, clothing, Springfield, Massachusetts armory location, (Special Warfare Operations Research and Development), This page was last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10. We have just started to assemble this on going source of Proof Can be without star and ring. with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information Rifles & Musket Information. These include the When Was My Gun Made? Firearm Dates by Serial Number - SkyAboveUs of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces of his I think it was made 1890 but not sure. Hand Guns 5 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . The book Classic Arms Importers and manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts. Post request for quotation and get multiple offers from manufacturers, 155MM HE 107 Full Zone 8 Charge with Electronic Fuze, Large quantity of surplus guns and exotic guns, BA 312 Semi-Auto Magazine Tube Tactical Shotgun, BA 912 Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto (2 Different Mold), BA 912 Special Cerakote Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto Shotgun. Some were sold in Stoeger catalogs in the early 60s. for your continued support, encouragement and admonishment. You can easily choose the shotgun you need on Ammoterra.com. 3 vols. Collette Lopold Please someone let me know that they know about these Belgian doubles! The numbers 138 G(looks like a 1) are under the proof mark. BELGIAN PROOF MARKSPROOF MARKS: BELGIAN PROOF MARKS, . The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheuxs 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges.Dating pin-fire guns: the 1835 date of Lefaucheuxs invention gives us a convenient terminus a quo: if the pin-fire wasnt invented until 1835, any pin-fire gun cannot be earlier than 1835. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame. These marks are customarily the cipher of the gunsmiths guild and the mark of the State or city. Ancion DD & Fils Beretta, a maker of handguns and shotguns, has hired an Elvis Presley impersonator for live events. Quite old. Hunting, fishing, cooking, and other critical aspects of life. The fourth the crossed branches, with the letters S.E.E., and a cross in their angles. The IZh motorcycles and automobiles are manufactured by. List of firearm brands - Wikipedia This listing allows you to trace back a particular nation's aviation history in reverse-chronological order. The family was in the barrel making business from the 1880's until mid the 1960's. http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm This is Jean-Baptiste Delcour-Dupont and his son Oscar, 1924. If you can, send me a photo: ghcox3@gmail.com.Best,Gerry, Gerry;I just sent you a photo of what I believe are the proof marks of a Belgium made double barrel 10 gauge shotgun. Colette Victor Those are about the only other possible sources of information, and probably won't narrow it down much more than what we know: second half of the 19th century, but before 1892.Best,GerryBest. The book presented below is the second of the series and is covering the gun makers whose names are in the D to F range of the alphabetical order. Each gun maker is presented with the maximum of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most . To make purchases and use the full site services, register or login your account. My uncle has this neat old revolver that he doesn't know much about Andr M.J. examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these Their cipher or mark was the letters G.P. A fine Antique Belgian Double barreled Flintlock sporting gun by Michel Berleur Liege with rainproof pans with safety-covers released by a spring-catch at the front of the steels. % Order this book online and pay it through 1893 - 1924 1930 - present CH B RAYE 15 Designates 4th or nitro proof; the mark contains the name of the powder in abbreviated form ( Schultze, E.C.) M855 Green Tip, Didn't find what you were looking for? We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. Bury Jules. Hits and Misses: Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks - Pinterest I have got a 19th century belgian double barrel pin fire shoutgun with walnut stock(116cm). Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. Ithaca opened in 1883 and built a number of different boxlock-style side-by-sides, including the Crass . Are you sure they are Damascus and not perhaps fake Damascus made by etching a spiral pattern on solid steel barrels for those who liked the look of Damascus? Courard If you are considering buying a Belgian gun, look long and hard atits quality. Old Belgian musket help | The Muzzleloading Forum It's complete. This will be an on going My best guess is that it's a maker's mark, but of course I could be wrong. Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently.