The article and the comments have sold me and created a TB fan. Titebond III is basically the best of Titebond I & II and put together in one bottle! These typically are for professionals or well skilled amateurs, but a novice might find some uses for them.. To improve an epoxy bond with a PVA, you can caramelize the surface to create better tooth. The manufacturer recommends a clamp time of between 30 minutes to an hour for their Titebond Wood glue products. In these cases, youd be safe and Im not sure what youre using this combination on, but my applications tend to be dynamic and often highly loaded, so I have to shy away from this bond scenario. When this happens, stirring will bring the glue back to a normal thickness. I thought I had everything in order, but as you know sometimes glue-ups, especially complicated ones, dont go quite to plan. I was going to say the same thing. Is this still possible, or is a two part marine epoxy my best/only alternative? If using a power sander, the wood to either side of the dried glue will sand down faster than the glue itself, leaving dips in the wood (remember Titebond quote that their glue is stronger than wood, and its true) Masking inside cabinet corners with painting tape is a must if you want to save big sanding hours later on. If a previously glued joint comes loose, PVA glue does not bond effectively because the pores are clogged, which makes for a weak joint. Optimum Conditions:We recommend that the moisture content of the wood be between 6-8% and the relative humidity be between 40-50%, General Clamp Pressure:For softwoods (pine): 100-150 psi. If you did stock your shop with all three youd also have to try to use up all three over the course of a year or so before the glue goes bad. Clamps should be positioned a minimum of 1-1/2-2 inches in from sides and evenly spaced at 8-12 inches throughout the piece. But for laminating the thin stock and veneers that make up the bindings and purflings, which have to be steam- bent to shape, I use TB III. After all, it seeps deep into the wood and doesn't sit on the surface. Titebond II Premium is similar to the original formula, but with the added benefit of being water-resistant. If you work with epoxy regularly, as I do, these are huge considerations, besides the price. So for me the only things left are price and color. According to the American Wood Council, safe allowable shear strength for the best species of domestic woods is no more than 220 psi for structural design purposes. Of course it rained the next day. Elmers glue will work too. Maybe Titebond III doesnt penetrate the wood fibers as well as Titebond II? Not much except cyanoacrylates will stick to it, though some polyurethanes do too (like PL Premium). Once you get a handle on epoxy, youll find using other adhesives difficult, even with the mixing and stuff associated with epoxy. If they survive, its a pass on the type 1 test. However, I have noticed no particular problem in using this, as my workshop tends to run the humidity range of 12 percent to as much as 60 percent within any given week. I repair a lot of furniture and Gorilla Glue, or any other polyurethane glue is not really glue at all, its a polyurethane foam that sticks to things well. We've got your back. Should I ever be compensated to write, I will make full disclosure. :icon_smile: Learning more about tools everyday :thumbsup: Typically, I'll leave mortise and tenon or edge to edge glue ups in clamps over night. it really shouldnt matter since Im fiberglassing the toons with epoxy resin and the whole skeltons will be painted with enamel paint. Also noted above, where you could theoretically run into trouble is sustained higher temperature applications. Id like to roll on the glue to each surface so Id need a bit of setup time. Thank you for your comments regarding the different glues. When using light colored PVA (e.g., TB1, TB2), to disguise glue lines you can mix some saw dust from your project with a little glue to get a matching colored paste to apply to your visible glue line. For use on wood-to-wood and on most other porous materials where a waterproof glue is required.
Limitations: Titebond III passes ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance tests. So regular wood glue wont bond very well. Will fix it now. That is because PVA makes incredibly strong joints on unfinished raw wood, but in the process clogs the wood pores. On the topic of GLUE! Thanks very much.
Very light wood in color and in weight (compared to other pieces i have) I live on my own, i dragged this piece (yes im a female not buff) but i got this piece into my house but 2 of the doors lterally broke off after i pulled the dolly hard andvgot caught on door frame. Hot Tips To Get Flat Plywood. Liquid hide glue, however, is considered to be inferior to traditional hot hide glue in strenght, but is a lot easier to use, with its long working time. Read though these publications so you dont make a novice mistake. All of the listed other brands, are half the price (or more) of the major epoxy formulators, with very similar physical attributes. For this application water resistant wood glue would give you secure adhesion without the concern of a glue failure. 
Nice to get a refresher about the uses of the 3 Titebonds. If youve used any other PVA wood glue, youll already know how to use Titebond. When I tried gluing the first Dado piece into the cedar I could hardly get it in. I've glued up panels in the summer for 10 minutes and then sent them through the planer and then the panel bevel on a shaper. Ive used quite a bit of it over the years, though in recent decades, not so much with the advent of epoxy formulations. All content on The Wood Whisperer is copyrighted, and may not be reprinted in full form without my written consent. Its easier than you may think, lol. According to many banjo luthiers, they prefer TB I for primarily two reasons (them being cheap isnt one of them). Luthiers are posting in various forums that this form of Hide Glue is inferior to perform this kind of work? Woodwork Hubby is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Wow this is alot of discussion around glueI love every word of it! CA glue is great stuff, but not practical for large projects. I am trying to find out if titebond II glue will stick to itself. Should I glue the bench top or use 2 1/2 #8 screws?
It doesnt mean epoxy isnt waterproof, but it does mean you shouldnt park a boat, glued together with epoxy over an active underwater volcano, or some delamination might result.
I am a bit confused on which glue to use either Titebond 2 or 3 as the fascia board is being oiled prior to being put up to ensure all faces are protected from moisture and will be oiled once more after fitting. Have a snug fit. It seems to have faded away. One other question(s), since Im also new to laminating procedures, etc Click here to view the current price on Amazon! You might have to check with Titebond, but if the glue looks good and pours nicely, its probably still good. I just built a cedar grill table for my green egg smoker, was quite proud of myself until I realized that all the joints are done with tight bond 1. What glue should one use to avoid the lines? Titebond II will easily come off your fingers by rubbing them together, whereas original titebond will coat you fingers and even if you try to rub it off. Im with rgdaniel on this one. There are formulations that work with the same physical properties, but are much more difficult to blush and less reactive to people. Wipe clean, then sand when dry to blend in the texture. For unusual glue ups where you dont want to use a brad or other mechanical fastener use a drop of CA glue inside your regular glue joint to hold things in place while your Titebond or other glue sets. If you get some on your clothes, make sure to clean it immediately with warm soapy water, as once it has cured there will be no way to remove it from your clothes without damaging your clothing. In saying this, I have needed to use Titebond III on a cutting board that had light-colored wood. Ive only used Titebond original in my very short wood working experience (6 months at most). Titebond 2 is water resistant and doesnt have the temperature problem, and with the fascia being oiled it will protect the glue joints even further from water ingress. This brings me to an important point, while all the Titebond range can be sanded, some glues dry very hard (especially Ultimate III). I have seen some folks on forums giving Titebond hell for their overuse of the term waterproof. So try to use woods with similar expansion rates for best results. Well I dont know about you guys, but I am not about to stock three different types of PVA glue just for the sake of a few hundred theoretical PSI. Is this normal? Something like epoxy would work nicely. Titebond III has a slightly longer working time, so if you need a little longer to position your surfaces together after gluing, go for this version. Tricks for keeping Gorilla glue: If looking for a quality, non-amine cure epoxy (non-blushing, less reactive to people), try Raka or one of the products at Progressive Polymers. Perfect for laminating waterskis, etc. Epoxy choices can range from the 5 minute stuff found at the local big box store (dont use it) to the full blown high tech stuff employed on the Americas Cub boats. I think we are in a climate that represents the best case scenario for indoor furniture. (That hickory board Im planning to use for one of the paddle shafts sure is heavy!) :->. Since all PVA adhesives form a plastic film when dried this plastic will effectively melt once a sufficiently high temperature is reached. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. Titebond Orignal is best for indoor use while Titebond II and III have varying amounts of water resistance. So if you have a project that will be exposed to light water (cutting boards, outdoor furniture, etc..), Titebond II will suffice. Joints and edges of glued pieces not being lined up when clamped can be a big problem because most wood glues are not reversible; meaning once they cured the joints cannot be moved. We live in VA where it rains at the drop of a hat! Your email address will not be published. TiteBond I and II are somewhat water resistant, with II much more so than I, so indoor use is just fine. Okay, I messed up a maple table top with glue lines. I needed a good food-safe Is Plywood Flat Anymore?
Thats a far cry from even the 3600 psi shear strength for original Titebond. See my post on this. In fact, most modern plywood is made with a curved veneer that gives it more strength and stability. The primary issues have been noted, with creep being a real problem with all the PVAs. A smoother finish will create a stronger bond, so sand or plane your surface if possible beforehand. It doesnt stick to itself, which makes repairs a pain in the butt joint. Not so with hide glue. Here is a short video from the company themselves explaining the differences: Apart from the differences mentioned above, each version of Titebond has a common set of useful features, which help make Titebond one of the most popular wood glues on the market. I have heard that spackle will pop out of the holes in time. Hardwoods, wouldnt be common in a paddle laminate, but if you can tolerate the weight increase, sure you can mix and match.
If you get any Titebond II or III glue in your clothes, make sure to clean it immediately with warm water as once its dry it will not come out. I don?t worry about glue strength because everything I have seen or read shows that the wood breaks before glue joint (with Titebond I). I had to go through a whole stack of 24s just to find a few that were relatively straight grained and defect free, but its worth the trouble if you want light weight. My neighbors new cedar fences got destroyed, but mine didnt even budge and the staining is still brilliant. And by not using too much clamping pressure so that plenty of glue stays in the joint and it doesnt go dry. Douglas fir is in the low 30s and the hardwoods well theyll make you cuss this decision pretty quickly on the water. Ive had the same issue with the epoxy hardening after being on the shelf but not the same issue with wood glue. That is good for attaching a fingerboard to the neck. Ill take a look. Both are aliphatic resin emulsions. This site uses affiliate links. I have not had any issues with creep, and I personally hope my repairs are permanent, not temporary. B-) Titebond III all the way! Dont forget the bastard stepchild Titebond liquid hide glue. Dont ever use water to release hide on a violin!!! It holds up to the abise a bit better. I will certainly give it more consideration, but like you, will not stock all three in the hopes of using it for the perfect application. Does Titebond Wood Glue work on Cedar and other oily woods? It is cheaper and is good down to 50 degrees as opposed to Titebond II which is good down to 55. Just for S&G I glued two pieces of maple together using the dark glue, actually added a contrast that could come in handy some day. Obviously I can cover it, but its still going to be exposed to winters and summers and some inevitable moisture.
That years ago and now I see that they have bottles store themselves sitting upside down. Clamp Time:Clamp time is dependent on wood species, moisture content and environmental conditions. Ive always taken open time to mean the time youve got to clamp things up. On the FWW webiste, they report at 150 degrees: Despite the fact that no one recommends it, when your cutting board finally runs through a dishwasher it wont delaminate if you used Titebond III. Resorcinal will also pass the boiling test, if you plan on boiling your project. Because many types of wood glue will not release after curing, hide glue is your choice when building wooden instruments, fine furniture or adhering wood veneers. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. Im wondering if the water resistant TB2 is really up to a few months of humidity above 90% for outdoor furniture.
Id use a true wood filler like Timbermate. Titebond works on Cedar, Teak, Redwood, and any other oily wood, however, you may need to take some extra steps in the preparation to ensure a good bond. I had a lot of issues with titebond as the working time is way too short for a newby like me. Thank you for making this possible. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. I dont do outdoor projects. 2) excessive penetration can starve the joint of glue making glue failure more likely. Unless I am missing something, doesnt the lower wood failure rate for Titebond III would indicate a higher rate for glue failure (or perhaps glue-wood interface failure)? Looking at Rocklers current pricing on quarts, we have $8.59 for Titebond Original, $10.49 for Titebond II, and $13.99 for Titebond III. Some of the best explanation on the topic that I have seen to date! I could tell that the joints where I applied the glue first were already pretty dry, pretty sticky, and the squeeze out was pretty minimal. I wonder if there is any difference between the three in the visibility of the glue line on light-colored woods. i bought the stuff because it was supposed to be the ultimate glue and it was on sale at the time so i went with it thinking that it couldnt hurt to go with the best. Titebond 3 sounds like it will NOT give me the degree of waterproofing I need, but I was still hoping to be able to utilize some type of non-catalyzed one step glue(for both ease of use, and to minimize waste). Ideal for wood, metal, plastic, ceramics, HPL, stone, Corianand more. I have a bottle of Titebond III that Im going to use to fix an old violin that is falling apart at the ribs, splitting on part of the back, and around the button where the tailpiece hooks. You know where to find me if youre interested. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. If the joint is a good fit, any of the usual suspects will do, as with sufficient clamping pressure, you should be able to bring the glue lines closed. We do this to certain plastics for the same reason. I dont use all that much so cost is not big issue, Thx for the info. Thanks for the kind response and all the definitive information, it is very much appreciated! and I enjoyed your humor in reference to the hot water delamination issue with epoxy! Im building a cedar strip kayak and need the glue on the strip to set up so that I can move on to the next strip. As far as strength, these days if you have a tight joint the wood will fail before the glue so the strength of titebond II is more than enough for me. I had googled looking for a clear description of the difference and as I was wondering if I was hindering myself by being a penny pincher and using original versus Type III that I saw recommend in some other places. This is why you see lots of spruce employed. Id also use the epoxy on the hairline gaps. My furniture was returned with all the joints loosened.
As with all PVAs (what TiteBond is), it suffers from joint creep under load and this is accelerated with moisture. While some glues (especially Polyeurathane Glues) expand or foam when curing, this is not the case with Titebond Wood Glue products. Anyway, that means ultimate failure ought to be expected around 1800 psi or less. Rod. Titebond 2 is better the 3 for waterproofing, Without backing evidence, we are forced to discard this comment entirely. And, given my areas range of weather (August typically runs 65 percent or more humidity, while May and February run higher but tend to dump humidity as precipitation), I can honestly say Im glad to have gotten this particular glue. Im a fan. But in my opinion, there are only a few factors that really make a difference to the average woodworker. An example would be white spruce mixed with red cedar or oak mixed with mahogany. Only thing I have is this series of numbers. For medium density woods (cherry, soft maple): 150-200 psi. I have a LOT of gluing at once for a special project. If you wait until its gummy enough to scrape it does leave a nasty dark spot to contend with, but if you try and wipe it off with water right away and the board isnt thick enough to resist swelling you risk warping the end grain before the glue dries. Great thread, me Ive got a question applying 5 mil copper sheet to wood, outdoor project, its a moongate so the object will you not be touched by anything other than the elements. But I do appreciate that there has been someone who finally explained it in a manner I can understand. Its thicker formulation offers fewer runs and drips, making it easier to use and more effective for precise assemblies. It breaks or de-polymerizes the surface molecules, which creates little fingers of broken carbon molecules, so the epoxy has something to key into. But some luthiers seem to have good results with TB 1. Some links on this page are affiliate links which means that, if you choose to make a purchase, I may earn a small commission at no extra cost. Thanks for your time. Titebond Original will come out no problem, even once its dry. They rely on absorption into a fibrous material to work properly. I STICK with TBII since it can be used indoors or out. (I knew they were different, but figured it was just a way for the company to make more money). turning perfectly good wood into firewood every day :smile3: A forum community dedicated to professional woodworkers and enthusiasts. 8 year old thread? Not sure how many years it had been air drying, but 400+ board feet of Black Walnut for $400 you dont pass up even if it has an occasional bullet in it. Versatile performance! if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'woodworkhubby_com-banner-1','ezslot_6',114,'0','0'])};if(typeof __ez_fad_cmd!='undefined'){__ez_fad_cmd.push('div-gpt-ad-woodworkhubby_com-banner-1-0');}else{__ez_fad_cmd=['div-gpt-ad-woodworkhubby_com-banner-1-0'];};It is also the perfect craft or hobby glue and can be sanded and finished easily. I use TiteBond III on a lot of stuff and have developed a few new ways to handle it, including how to increase its marginal working time. This is the time for an unstressed joint only, should you have a joint under stress then it should be clamped for a full 24 hours. So at least for me, the deciding factor may just come down to the color of the glue line. Lets say you are building a beautiful cherry wood hutch and plan to apply a crown molding at the top edge. This is because epoxy can be used as a protective coating, waterproofer, adhesive and bonder (yep different from being a glue). Yes, I did follow the instructions and squeeze air out before capping. The color variance is due to their water-resistant properties. However, Titebond III exhibits greater thermal plasticity, which is a technical way of expressing that it loses more strength as temperature increases. The third difference is open time. Do you have any numbers on bond strength? Click here to view Titebond II Premium on Amazon. Hopefully there are some happy ending stories out there to cool my nerves :). We also participate in other affiliate programs which compensate us for referring traffic. Just bring the pieces together enough so they contact each other. Well needless to say, we had another strong microbust in West Denver that it made the news. Here are the links to each of the safety data sheets for Titebond Wood Glue products: Titebond Original Wood Glue Safety Data SheetTitebond II Premium Wood Glue Safety Data SheetTitebond IIII Ultimate Wood Glue Safety Data Sheet. Glad I STUCK around to read this about glue. Its always sticky still. Next time bend your wood rather than stacking. You can find more about the site on the about page. Even though they do not dry clear, Titebond will still be the best wood glue I use. Id like not to clean all drips.
un-air-conditioned garage workshop. My instincts are to use Titebond III due to the probability of moisture exposure and its friendliness to indirect food exposure, besides I use it for all my cutting boards. This means the glue will not deteriorate or degrade, even in situations where it is exposed to water constantly. I used with Walnut and it works really well (very hidden glue line). cant get better proof than that of its adhesive properties. Why is selecting the correct wood glue important? glue for this? I have extensively used Titebond Original I and Ultimate III for all kinds of projects, indoor / outdoor and large scale furniture. I am using a 3/4 X 4 X 93 plywood dado to join them. Apparently CA adhesives (cyanoacrylate) are best for wood to copper. My glue up (when more than two glue lines are involve) are artsy; pieces always shift a little when putting the clamp pressure and I always too late to fix it . :). Anyone else having experiences similar to Gabe? Thanks for the info Marc. Everyone has this question at one point or another. I have never had a problem with this and the yellowing of my fingers washes off. We are a participant in the Amazon Services Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
THis is why I have no problem recommending it for bonding a joint already coated with PVA. Titebond I would be the closest to being clear as it dried to a light yellow. Holy Sh*t! So for those complex glue-ups, Titebond III would be a good choice. There are many types of wood glues. All I know is its secure enough to do its job. Now I dont know about anyone else but to me that is NOT waterproof. Has anyone tried testing this? Concerning glue creep, a boatbuilding friend of mine once glued teak gunwale strips on a 30 steamboat, bent around the hull using epoxy and no screws. Im working with Western Red Cedar and I have lots of glue joints. It stays hard until actually melted. Gabe, Ive been using TB III for perhaps two years of busy hobbyist work/play. Cure, clamp, and cleanup time are each affected by temperature & RH. Franklin Titebond's popular water resistant professional wood glue. I think it would have to be very hot weather before I would take the clamps off in that timeframe. It can also be used for High frequency or hot and cold presses. Wood glue needs to be absorbed into the fibers in order for it to have the strongest bond. But sealing isnt an all or non proposition. This will work on exterior applications, even those in highly moist locations. For hardwoods (oak, birch): 200-300 psi. I find its cheaper and easier to just stick with titebond II and avoid storing my completed projects submerged in water. Our humidity is low with the exception of a couple months in summer. also, whats the best way to get the glue into some of the hairline splits? Dieter asked me to try out a series of Titebond glues that have found their way into the shop April 2016. Titebond Wood Glues all have a shelf life of Two Years. I wonder if anyone still uses Weldwood plastic resin glue. I have been doing woodwork and cabinetmaking for over 30 years so I decided to start this site to help educate others on what I have learned. If youre building indoor furniture correctly, you dont need to cover your bases. Just as the Whisperer said, a proper joint/construction with Titebond I is incredibly strong. Applying too little glue runs the risk of a failure. Will Titebond (either of the types) give an adequate bond since there are unlikely to be any pores to bond to on the aluminum? Titebond White Glue is easy to use, non-toxic and cleans up with water. All the glues I tried did what I wanted, and thats the most important thing. Mineral spirits when wet, sand or scrape when dry. By this I mean highly loaded structures, frequently soaked or immersed joints and repairs should be considered before making the TiteBond decision. If you pass that time it will create a dry layer on top. My fingers are covered with it for an hour or two at a time. Each version of Titebond Wood Glue has a slightly different color once its dry. I had the same thing happen to me with the only bottle Ive ever bought, but it happened in a few months.
In practice, this means that they are safe to use for things like knife holders, cutting boards, wooden bowls, kitchen cabinets, bread boxes etc. The bench holds up 50 or 60 pounds of dirt in pots, so not highly loaded, but some very slight joint movement can be seen, since I made it. Ive learned a lot from this thread already! A glue joint on mirror frame slipped and I sure dont want to start over. Is TB3 the best glue for bee hives. I have used all three past two years. Is this them covering themselves legally or should I be more careful? I need to replace a broken part that was bonded to another with Titebond II. I DO want the wood (yellow cedar) to silver uniformly. Im glad I was able to help! If you have screw reinforcement, that should keep you in good shape for quite some time. This works, but isnt particularly waterproof, though effective if the paint coatings are kept intact. I use TB II as the middle of the road glue. I glue a lot of wood and fiberglass laminates for both interiors and marine applications. I'm the guy behind Woodwork Hubby! What happens if the glued work is clamped beyond that time lime? The main differences between Titebond 1, 2 & 3 are water resistance, strength, open time, and price. Im starting to get into marquetry and the person that introduced me to it always uses TB II glue for the finished project to the substrate. The only glue you should use on a violin is hide glue. It works well for some applications, and sometimes is better than Titebond and other PVA glues on wood as explained below. Its been a while since I played with carpenters glue, so I cant say from specific experience.
Limitations: Titebond III passes ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance tests. So regular wood glue wont bond very well. Will fix it now. That is because PVA makes incredibly strong joints on unfinished raw wood, but in the process clogs the wood pores. On the topic of GLUE! Thanks very much.
Very light wood in color and in weight (compared to other pieces i have) I live on my own, i dragged this piece (yes im a female not buff) but i got this piece into my house but 2 of the doors lterally broke off after i pulled the dolly hard andvgot caught on door frame. Hot Tips To Get Flat Plywood. Liquid hide glue, however, is considered to be inferior to traditional hot hide glue in strenght, but is a lot easier to use, with its long working time. Read though these publications so you dont make a novice mistake. All of the listed other brands, are half the price (or more) of the major epoxy formulators, with very similar physical attributes. For this application water resistant wood glue would give you secure adhesion without the concern of a glue failure. Nice to get a refresher about the uses of the 3 Titebonds. If youve used any other PVA wood glue, youll already know how to use Titebond. When I tried gluing the first Dado piece into the cedar I could hardly get it in. I've glued up panels in the summer for 10 minutes and then sent them through the planer and then the panel bevel on a shaper. Ive used quite a bit of it over the years, though in recent decades, not so much with the advent of epoxy formulations. All content on The Wood Whisperer is copyrighted, and may not be reprinted in full form without my written consent. Its easier than you may think, lol. According to many banjo luthiers, they prefer TB I for primarily two reasons (them being cheap isnt one of them). Luthiers are posting in various forums that this form of Hide Glue is inferior to perform this kind of work? Woodwork Hubby is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Wow this is alot of discussion around glueI love every word of it! CA glue is great stuff, but not practical for large projects. I am trying to find out if titebond II glue will stick to itself. Should I glue the bench top or use 2 1/2 #8 screws?
It doesnt mean epoxy isnt waterproof, but it does mean you shouldnt park a boat, glued together with epoxy over an active underwater volcano, or some delamination might result.
I am a bit confused on which glue to use either Titebond 2 or 3 as the fascia board is being oiled prior to being put up to ensure all faces are protected from moisture and will be oiled once more after fitting. Have a snug fit. It seems to have faded away. One other question(s), since Im also new to laminating procedures, etc Click here to view the current price on Amazon! You might have to check with Titebond, but if the glue looks good and pours nicely, its probably still good. I just built a cedar grill table for my green egg smoker, was quite proud of myself until I realized that all the joints are done with tight bond 1. What glue should one use to avoid the lines? Titebond II will easily come off your fingers by rubbing them together, whereas original titebond will coat you fingers and even if you try to rub it off. Im with rgdaniel on this one. There are formulations that work with the same physical properties, but are much more difficult to blush and less reactive to people. Wipe clean, then sand when dry to blend in the texture. For unusual glue ups where you dont want to use a brad or other mechanical fastener use a drop of CA glue inside your regular glue joint to hold things in place while your Titebond or other glue sets. If you get some on your clothes, make sure to clean it immediately with warm soapy water, as once it has cured there will be no way to remove it from your clothes without damaging your clothing. In saying this, I have needed to use Titebond III on a cutting board that had light-colored wood. Ive only used Titebond original in my very short wood working experience (6 months at most). Titebond 2 is water resistant and doesnt have the temperature problem, and with the fascia being oiled it will protect the glue joints even further from water ingress. This brings me to an important point, while all the Titebond range can be sanded, some glues dry very hard (especially Ultimate III). I have seen some folks on forums giving Titebond hell for their overuse of the term waterproof. So try to use woods with similar expansion rates for best results. Well I dont know about you guys, but I am not about to stock three different types of PVA glue just for the sake of a few hundred theoretical PSI. Is this normal? Something like epoxy would work nicely. Titebond III has a slightly longer working time, so if you need a little longer to position your surfaces together after gluing, go for this version. Tricks for keeping Gorilla glue: If looking for a quality, non-amine cure epoxy (non-blushing, less reactive to people), try Raka or one of the products at Progressive Polymers. Perfect for laminating waterskis, etc. Epoxy choices can range from the 5 minute stuff found at the local big box store (dont use it) to the full blown high tech stuff employed on the Americas Cub boats. I think we are in a climate that represents the best case scenario for indoor furniture. (That hickory board Im planning to use for one of the paddle shafts sure is heavy!) :->. Since all PVA adhesives form a plastic film when dried this plastic will effectively melt once a sufficiently high temperature is reached. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. Titebond Orignal is best for indoor use while Titebond II and III have varying amounts of water resistance. So if you have a project that will be exposed to light water (cutting boards, outdoor furniture, etc..), Titebond II will suffice. Joints and edges of glued pieces not being lined up when clamped can be a big problem because most wood glues are not reversible; meaning once they cured the joints cannot be moved. We live in VA where it rains at the drop of a hat! Your email address will not be published. TiteBond I and II are somewhat water resistant, with II much more so than I, so indoor use is just fine. Okay, I messed up a maple table top with glue lines. I needed a good food-safe Is Plywood Flat Anymore?
Thats a far cry from even the 3600 psi shear strength for original Titebond. See my post on this. In fact, most modern plywood is made with a curved veneer that gives it more strength and stability. The primary issues have been noted, with creep being a real problem with all the PVAs. A smoother finish will create a stronger bond, so sand or plane your surface if possible beforehand. It doesnt stick to itself, which makes repairs a pain in the butt joint. Not so with hide glue. Here is a short video from the company themselves explaining the differences: Apart from the differences mentioned above, each version of Titebond has a common set of useful features, which help make Titebond one of the most popular wood glues on the market. I have heard that spackle will pop out of the holes in time. Hardwoods, wouldnt be common in a paddle laminate, but if you can tolerate the weight increase, sure you can mix and match.
If you get any Titebond II or III glue in your clothes, make sure to clean it immediately with warm water as once its dry it will not come out. I don?t worry about glue strength because everything I have seen or read shows that the wood breaks before glue joint (with Titebond I). I had to go through a whole stack of 24s just to find a few that were relatively straight grained and defect free, but its worth the trouble if you want light weight. My neighbors new cedar fences got destroyed, but mine didnt even budge and the staining is still brilliant. And by not using too much clamping pressure so that plenty of glue stays in the joint and it doesnt go dry. Douglas fir is in the low 30s and the hardwoods well theyll make you cuss this decision pretty quickly on the water. Ive had the same issue with the epoxy hardening after being on the shelf but not the same issue with wood glue. That is good for attaching a fingerboard to the neck. Ill take a look. Both are aliphatic resin emulsions. This site uses affiliate links. I have not had any issues with creep, and I personally hope my repairs are permanent, not temporary. B-) Titebond III all the way! Dont forget the bastard stepchild Titebond liquid hide glue. Dont ever use water to release hide on a violin!!! It holds up to the abise a bit better. I will certainly give it more consideration, but like you, will not stock all three in the hopes of using it for the perfect application. Does Titebond Wood Glue work on Cedar and other oily woods? It is cheaper and is good down to 50 degrees as opposed to Titebond II which is good down to 55. Just for S&G I glued two pieces of maple together using the dark glue, actually added a contrast that could come in handy some day. Obviously I can cover it, but its still going to be exposed to winters and summers and some inevitable moisture.
That years ago and now I see that they have bottles store themselves sitting upside down. Clamp Time:Clamp time is dependent on wood species, moisture content and environmental conditions. Ive always taken open time to mean the time youve got to clamp things up. On the FWW webiste, they report at 150 degrees: Despite the fact that no one recommends it, when your cutting board finally runs through a dishwasher it wont delaminate if you used Titebond III. Resorcinal will also pass the boiling test, if you plan on boiling your project. Because many types of wood glue will not release after curing, hide glue is your choice when building wooden instruments, fine furniture or adhering wood veneers. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. Im wondering if the water resistant TB2 is really up to a few months of humidity above 90% for outdoor furniture.
Id use a true wood filler like Timbermate. Titebond works on Cedar, Teak, Redwood, and any other oily wood, however, you may need to take some extra steps in the preparation to ensure a good bond. I had a lot of issues with titebond as the working time is way too short for a newby like me. Thank you for making this possible. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. I dont do outdoor projects. 2) excessive penetration can starve the joint of glue making glue failure more likely. Unless I am missing something, doesnt the lower wood failure rate for Titebond III would indicate a higher rate for glue failure (or perhaps glue-wood interface failure)? Looking at Rocklers current pricing on quarts, we have $8.59 for Titebond Original, $10.49 for Titebond II, and $13.99 for Titebond III. Some of the best explanation on the topic that I have seen to date! I could tell that the joints where I applied the glue first were already pretty dry, pretty sticky, and the squeeze out was pretty minimal. I wonder if there is any difference between the three in the visibility of the glue line on light-colored woods. i bought the stuff because it was supposed to be the ultimate glue and it was on sale at the time so i went with it thinking that it couldnt hurt to go with the best. Titebond 3 sounds like it will NOT give me the degree of waterproofing I need, but I was still hoping to be able to utilize some type of non-catalyzed one step glue(for both ease of use, and to minimize waste). Ideal for wood, metal, plastic, ceramics, HPL, stone, Corianand more. I have a bottle of Titebond III that Im going to use to fix an old violin that is falling apart at the ribs, splitting on part of the back, and around the button where the tailpiece hooks. You know where to find me if youre interested. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. If the joint is a good fit, any of the usual suspects will do, as with sufficient clamping pressure, you should be able to bring the glue lines closed. We do this to certain plastics for the same reason. I dont use all that much so cost is not big issue, Thx for the info. Thanks for the kind response and all the definitive information, it is very much appreciated! and I enjoyed your humor in reference to the hot water delamination issue with epoxy! Im building a cedar strip kayak and need the glue on the strip to set up so that I can move on to the next strip. As far as strength, these days if you have a tight joint the wood will fail before the glue so the strength of titebond II is more than enough for me. I had googled looking for a clear description of the difference and as I was wondering if I was hindering myself by being a penny pincher and using original versus Type III that I saw recommend in some other places. This is why you see lots of spruce employed. Id also use the epoxy on the hairline gaps. My furniture was returned with all the joints loosened.
As with all PVAs (what TiteBond is), it suffers from joint creep under load and this is accelerated with moisture. While some glues (especially Polyeurathane Glues) expand or foam when curing, this is not the case with Titebond Wood Glue products. Anyway, that means ultimate failure ought to be expected around 1800 psi or less. Rod. Titebond 2 is better the 3 for waterproofing, Without backing evidence, we are forced to discard this comment entirely. And, given my areas range of weather (August typically runs 65 percent or more humidity, while May and February run higher but tend to dump humidity as precipitation), I can honestly say Im glad to have gotten this particular glue. Im a fan. But in my opinion, there are only a few factors that really make a difference to the average woodworker. An example would be white spruce mixed with red cedar or oak mixed with mahogany. Only thing I have is this series of numbers. For medium density woods (cherry, soft maple): 150-200 psi. I have a LOT of gluing at once for a special project. If you wait until its gummy enough to scrape it does leave a nasty dark spot to contend with, but if you try and wipe it off with water right away and the board isnt thick enough to resist swelling you risk warping the end grain before the glue dries. Great thread, me Ive got a question applying 5 mil copper sheet to wood, outdoor project, its a moongate so the object will you not be touched by anything other than the elements. But I do appreciate that there has been someone who finally explained it in a manner I can understand. Its thicker formulation offers fewer runs and drips, making it easier to use and more effective for precise assemblies. It breaks or de-polymerizes the surface molecules, which creates little fingers of broken carbon molecules, so the epoxy has something to key into. But some luthiers seem to have good results with TB 1. Some links on this page are affiliate links which means that, if you choose to make a purchase, I may earn a small commission at no extra cost. Thanks for your time. Titebond Original will come out no problem, even once its dry. They rely on absorption into a fibrous material to work properly. I STICK with TBII since it can be used indoors or out. (I knew they were different, but figured it was just a way for the company to make more money). turning perfectly good wood into firewood every day :smile3: A forum community dedicated to professional woodworkers and enthusiasts. 8 year old thread? Not sure how many years it had been air drying, but 400+ board feet of Black Walnut for $400 you dont pass up even if it has an occasional bullet in it. Versatile performance! if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'woodworkhubby_com-banner-1','ezslot_6',114,'0','0'])};if(typeof __ez_fad_cmd!='undefined'){__ez_fad_cmd.push('div-gpt-ad-woodworkhubby_com-banner-1-0');}else{__ez_fad_cmd=['div-gpt-ad-woodworkhubby_com-banner-1-0'];};It is also the perfect craft or hobby glue and can be sanded and finished easily. I use TiteBond III on a lot of stuff and have developed a few new ways to handle it, including how to increase its marginal working time. This is the time for an unstressed joint only, should you have a joint under stress then it should be clamped for a full 24 hours. So at least for me, the deciding factor may just come down to the color of the glue line. Lets say you are building a beautiful cherry wood hutch and plan to apply a crown molding at the top edge. This is because epoxy can be used as a protective coating, waterproofer, adhesive and bonder (yep different from being a glue). Yes, I did follow the instructions and squeeze air out before capping. The color variance is due to their water-resistant properties. However, Titebond III exhibits greater thermal plasticity, which is a technical way of expressing that it loses more strength as temperature increases. The third difference is open time. Do you have any numbers on bond strength? Click here to view Titebond II Premium on Amazon. Hopefully there are some happy ending stories out there to cool my nerves :). We also participate in other affiliate programs which compensate us for referring traffic. Just bring the pieces together enough so they contact each other. Well needless to say, we had another strong microbust in West Denver that it made the news. Here are the links to each of the safety data sheets for Titebond Wood Glue products: Titebond Original Wood Glue Safety Data SheetTitebond II Premium Wood Glue Safety Data SheetTitebond IIII Ultimate Wood Glue Safety Data Sheet. Glad I STUCK around to read this about glue. Its always sticky still. Next time bend your wood rather than stacking. You can find more about the site on the about page. Even though they do not dry clear, Titebond will still be the best wood glue I use. Id like not to clean all drips.
un-air-conditioned garage workshop. My instincts are to use Titebond III due to the probability of moisture exposure and its friendliness to indirect food exposure, besides I use it for all my cutting boards. This means the glue will not deteriorate or degrade, even in situations where it is exposed to water constantly. I used with Walnut and it works really well (very hidden glue line). cant get better proof than that of its adhesive properties. Why is selecting the correct wood glue important? glue for this? I have extensively used Titebond Original I and Ultimate III for all kinds of projects, indoor / outdoor and large scale furniture. I am using a 3/4 X 4 X 93 plywood dado to join them. Apparently CA adhesives (cyanoacrylate) are best for wood to copper. My glue up (when more than two glue lines are involve) are artsy; pieces always shift a little when putting the clamp pressure and I always too late to fix it . :). Anyone else having experiences similar to Gabe? Thanks for the info Marc. Everyone has this question at one point or another. I have never had a problem with this and the yellowing of my fingers washes off. We are a participant in the Amazon Services Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
THis is why I have no problem recommending it for bonding a joint already coated with PVA. Titebond I would be the closest to being clear as it dried to a light yellow. Holy Sh*t! So for those complex glue-ups, Titebond III would be a good choice. There are many types of wood glues. All I know is its secure enough to do its job. Now I dont know about anyone else but to me that is NOT waterproof. Has anyone tried testing this? Concerning glue creep, a boatbuilding friend of mine once glued teak gunwale strips on a 30 steamboat, bent around the hull using epoxy and no screws. Im working with Western Red Cedar and I have lots of glue joints. It stays hard until actually melted. Gabe, Ive been using TB III for perhaps two years of busy hobbyist work/play. Cure, clamp, and cleanup time are each affected by temperature & RH. Franklin Titebond's popular water resistant professional wood glue. I think it would have to be very hot weather before I would take the clamps off in that timeframe. It can also be used for High frequency or hot and cold presses. Wood glue needs to be absorbed into the fibers in order for it to have the strongest bond. But sealing isnt an all or non proposition. This will work on exterior applications, even those in highly moist locations. For hardwoods (oak, birch): 200-300 psi. I find its cheaper and easier to just stick with titebond II and avoid storing my completed projects submerged in water. Our humidity is low with the exception of a couple months in summer. also, whats the best way to get the glue into some of the hairline splits? Dieter asked me to try out a series of Titebond glues that have found their way into the shop April 2016. Titebond Wood Glues all have a shelf life of Two Years. I wonder if anyone still uses Weldwood plastic resin glue. I have been doing woodwork and cabinetmaking for over 30 years so I decided to start this site to help educate others on what I have learned. If youre building indoor furniture correctly, you dont need to cover your bases. Just as the Whisperer said, a proper joint/construction with Titebond I is incredibly strong. Applying too little glue runs the risk of a failure. Will Titebond (either of the types) give an adequate bond since there are unlikely to be any pores to bond to on the aluminum? Titebond White Glue is easy to use, non-toxic and cleans up with water. All the glues I tried did what I wanted, and thats the most important thing. Mineral spirits when wet, sand or scrape when dry. By this I mean highly loaded structures, frequently soaked or immersed joints and repairs should be considered before making the TiteBond decision. If you pass that time it will create a dry layer on top. My fingers are covered with it for an hour or two at a time. Each version of Titebond Wood Glue has a slightly different color once its dry. I had the same thing happen to me with the only bottle Ive ever bought, but it happened in a few months.
In practice, this means that they are safe to use for things like knife holders, cutting boards, wooden bowls, kitchen cabinets, bread boxes etc. The bench holds up 50 or 60 pounds of dirt in pots, so not highly loaded, but some very slight joint movement can be seen, since I made it. Ive learned a lot from this thread already! A glue joint on mirror frame slipped and I sure dont want to start over. Is TB3 the best glue for bee hives. I have used all three past two years. Is this them covering themselves legally or should I be more careful? I need to replace a broken part that was bonded to another with Titebond II. I DO want the wood (yellow cedar) to silver uniformly. Im glad I was able to help! If you have screw reinforcement, that should keep you in good shape for quite some time. This works, but isnt particularly waterproof, though effective if the paint coatings are kept intact. I use TB II as the middle of the road glue. I glue a lot of wood and fiberglass laminates for both interiors and marine applications. I'm the guy behind Woodwork Hubby! What happens if the glued work is clamped beyond that time lime? The main differences between Titebond 1, 2 & 3 are water resistance, strength, open time, and price. Im starting to get into marquetry and the person that introduced me to it always uses TB II glue for the finished project to the substrate. The only glue you should use on a violin is hide glue. It works well for some applications, and sometimes is better than Titebond and other PVA glues on wood as explained below. Its been a while since I played with carpenters glue, so I cant say from specific experience.